Answer the questions below. Then listen to the model answers and think how you could improve yours.

Alita: Hey Pete, have you had a chance to listen to that podcast with Dan Heath about getting unstuck?

Pete: Yeah, Alita, I did! It was really interesting, especially the part about focusing on bright spots. It got me thinking about our team’s challenges.

Alita: Me too! The idea of studying what’s already working, instead of just dwelling on problems, seems so much more productive.

Pete: Exactly! I mean, think about the last project we had. We spent ages dissecting what went wrong. What if we’d spent that time figuring out what aspects did go well and how we could replicate them?

Alita: That’s what Dan Heath and his brother Chip were saying. Find out what makes your most satisfied employees happy. Try to replicate it for everyone.

Pete: It’s like that example in the podcast about families. Instead of always focusing on the bickering, try to understand when the kids are getting along and what’s causing that positive behaviour.

Alita: Right. Spot the good moments. It’s not about ignoring the problems, but shifting the focus.

Pete: I tried this at home the other day. My son is a very messy kid and he never puts away his toys. Instead of yelling at him, I asked myself, When does this not happen?

Alita: And what did you figure out?

Pete: Well, he likes to put away his cars into his car-shaped toy organizer. So I figured, if he likes parking his cars there, maybe he would like to “park” his other toys in similar containers. So I bought him a spaceship-shaped container for his action figures, and a treasure chest for his pirate toys. Now he likes tidying up.

Alita: That’s a great story. It’s like that therapist, John J. Murphy, in the podcast, who focused on the mornings when the mother wasn’t yelling at her daughter.

Pete: Precisely! They looked for solutions, instead of dwelling on the problems. It’s a small shift, but it can make a big difference.

Alita: So, how could we apply this ‘bright spots’ idea to our team?

Pete: I was thinking about Sarah. She always seems to hit her deadlines and her clients seem happy. Maybe we could shadow her for a day, see what her work habits are, and then share those insights with the rest of the team.

Alita: That’s a great idea! Instead of assuming we know why she’s successful, we actually go and see the work, as Dan Heath would say.

Pete: Exactly! And maybe we could also do a quick survey, asking everyone what aspects of their work they genuinely enjoy and feel they excel at.

Alita: And then we look for common threads, things we can amplify across the team. It’s about creating a positive feedback loop, instead of constantly firefighting.

Pete: I agree. Let’s propose this to the team lead. Focusing on bright spots could be a real game-changer for us.

Alita: Definitely. It’s about designing a system for success, instead of accepting that things are just “the way they are”.

Kat: Morning, Sven! Did you manage to listen to more of that podcast with Dan Heath?

Sven: I did, Kat! I was really struck by the section on “consider the goal of the goal.” It feels incredibly relevant to some of the issues we’ve been having with our marketing campaigns.

Kat: Absolutely! It’s so easy to get fixated on metrics and targets without really thinking about the bigger picture, isn’t it?

Sven: Precisely! We focus on the immediate goal and we miss what we are really trying to achieve. Think about our social media strategy. We’re constantly pushing for more followers and higher engagement rates.

Kat: Yes, the goal is to get more followers. But are those metrics actually translating into increased sales or brand loyalty? Are we really getting anything from it?

Sven: That’s exactly my point! We need to ask ourselves, “What’s the goal of the goal?” In this case, the real goal isn’t just to amass followers, but to build a community of engaged customers who ultimately purchase our products.

Kat: So, how do we shift our focus?

Sven: Well, instead of solely chasing follower counts, we could prioritise creating higher-quality content that resonates more deeply with our target audience. Content that offers value, sparks conversations, and builds trust.

Kat: That makes sense. It’s about quality over quantity. Like the example in the podcast about customer surveys at the car dealership.

Sven: Exactly! The dealership was so focused on getting perfect scores on the surveys that they forgot about the real goal: ensuring customer satisfaction and building long-term relationships1.

Kat: It reminds me of Father Richard Rohr’s question from the podcast: “What are we really doing when we are doing what we are doing?”

Sven: Very insightful! I think we can use that in a lot of situations. Think of our new “Wellness Initiative”. The purpose is fellowship, but are we truly enriching people’s lives or are we just “talking about dumb stuff with this dumb program”?

Kat: So how do you think that applies to our work?

Sven: We could also re-evaluate our performance metrics. Instead of just tracking website traffic, we could focus on metrics that indicate genuine customer engagement, such as time spent on site, number of repeat visits, and conversion rates.

Kat: And perhaps solicit more qualitative feedback from our customers through surveys or focus groups to really understand their needs and preferences.

Sven: Precisely! It’s about using the data to inform our strategy, not to dictate it. The numbers should be a tool, not the master.

Kat: I also think that it is important that we are open to changing our initial goal.

Sven: Yes, being aware of “goal lock”. Maybe our original plan is not the best one and we can achieve our aim in a better way.

Kat: Okay, shall we propose this shift in perspective to the marketing director?

Sven: Absolutely. By focusing on the “goal of the goal,” we can create more meaningful campaigns that drive real results, rather than just chasing vanity metrics.

Liam: Aisha, have you had a chance to think about how we can apply some of those ideas from the Dan Heath podcast? I was particularly interested in the “go and see the work” part.

Aisha: Yes, Liam, that resonated with me too. It’s about getting a real understanding of what’s actually happening, instead of relying on reports and second-hand information.

Liam: Exactly! It’s so easy to be distant from the actual work product. I mean, think about the new software implementation. We’ve been getting updates from the project manager, but have we actually seen how it’s affecting people on the ground?

Aisha: No, we haven’t. We’re managing by reports and memos, instead of seeing reality. We’re hearing about deadlines being met, but not about the struggles people might be facing to meet them.

Liam: It reminds me of the corrugated box factory story in the podcast. The owner discovered a wasteful practice just by walking the factory floor and observing what was happening.

Aisha: It’s like the factory owner was embarassed by what he found.

Liam: Right. The podcast mentioned if you aren’t embarrassed by what you find when you go and see the work, you probably aren’t looking closely enough.

Aisha: So, how do we apply this “go and see the work” principle to our situation?

Liam: Well, we could spend a day shadowing some of the team members who are using the new software. See how it’s impacting their workflow, what challenges they’re encountering, and what workarounds they’ve developed.

Aisha: That’s a great idea! It’s like the vice principal who shadowed a ninth-grader to understand their experience of the school day. You can’t really know what’s going on until you immerse yourself in their world.

Liam: And it’s not just about looking for problems. It’s also about identifying potential bright spots. Maybe some team members have found innovative ways to use the software that we can share with others.

Aisha: True. Find out what makes your most satisfied employees happy. Try to replicate it for everyone.

Liam: We might think, how could we not know what’s going on with the software, but that’s not fair. The stuff that gets to our desk is plenty to fill up our day.

Aisha: It takes an unnatural act to make that possible.

Liam: Exactly! Also, I think it’s important that we approach this with a sense of humility and curiosity. It’s not about judging or criticising, but about understanding and learning.

Aisha: Agreed. And it’s important to ask the people on the front lines if we want to know how to fix the problem.

Liam: So, should we propose this to the team lead? Suggest that we dedicate some time to “go and see the work” and get a better understanding of the challenges and opportunities with the new software?

Aisha: Absolutely. It could be a real eye-opener and help us identify leverage points for improvement. It’s far more effective than just sitting in our office and looking at spreadsheets.

Chloe: Ben, I was wondering if we could talk about how to apply more of the ideas from that Dan Heath podcast. The section about constraints really caught my attention.

Ben: Hi Chloe. Yes, I remember that part. It’s about identifying the bottlenecks that are holding us back. It made me think about our project timelines.

Chloe: Exactly! Constraints are the things that are limiting factors. We’re constantly missing deadlines, and I suspect there’s a key constraint we’re not addressing.

Ben: So, where do we start?

Chloe: Well, the podcast used Chick-fil-A’s drive-thru as a brilliant example. They’re masters at managing constraints. They identified the menu board as a constraint and eliminated it by having employees take orders on iPads in the parking lot.

Ben: That’s a great example of thinking outside the box. So, what’s our menu board? What’s the most obvious constraint in our project process?

Chloe: I think it’s the approval process. Projects often get stuck waiting for sign-off from various stakeholders.

Ben: Yes, that’s a huge bottleneck. Things can sit in someone’s inbox for days, even weeks. So how do we eliminate that constraint? Do we get rid of approvals altogether?

Chloe: Not necessarily eliminate, but rethink the process. Maybe we can implement a system where approvals are automated for certain types of tasks or projects.

Ben: Or perhaps we could delegate approval authority to team leads for smaller decisions, freeing up senior management to focus on the bigger picture.

Chloe: Exactly. It’s about streamlining the process and removing the bottleneck. But the podcast also mentioned that when you eliminate one constraint, another one pops up.

Ben: True. So, if we speed up the approval process, what’s the next likely bottleneck?

Chloe: Probably resource allocation. If projects get approved faster, we might not have enough people or equipment to handle the increased workload.

Ben: Okay, so we need to anticipate that and have a plan in place to address it. Maybe we can cross-train team members so they can handle different tasks, or invest in additional equipment.

Chloe: It’s important to remember that you always have a constraint. The idea is to identify it and eliminate it. Then find the next one.

Ben: It’s a continuous process of improvement. Like in the podcast, Tony Fernandez had a very disciplined approach to fast food flow. He chased one constraint at a time.

Chloe: Exactly! And the goal is to improve our system by eliminating the number one thing holding us back.

Ben: Should we propose a “constraint identification” meeting to the project team? We can brainstorm potential bottlenecks and come up with solutions to address them.

Chloe: Definitely. By focusing on constraints, we can unlock significant improvements in our project timelines and overall efficiency. It’s about finding that leverage point where a little bit of effort yields disproportionate returns.

Rowan: Harper, I’ve been looking into more of Dan Heath’s ideas and I’m intrigued by this concept of “bursts”.

Harper: Hey Rowan! Right, I remember that. Bursts are focused outputs of energy, right?

Rowan: Precisely. The podcast mentioned that a burst is a focused output of energy, different from the standard way of working hard. How do you think that applies to our team?

Harper: Well, I guess it’s about working denser, not necessarily harder. The podcast suggested that if you can work on some new priority for 30 focused hours on that priority in one week, that’s probably going to be the equivalent of 100 hours that you scattered and fragmented across six months.

Rowan: Exactly. It’s better to push hard in a concentrated way, in a collaborative way all at once, maybe leaving other things on the wayside, to focus on the new priority.

Harper: So, instead of spreading our efforts thinly across multiple projects, we concentrate on one key area for a short, intense period?

Rowan: Exactly! Think about that website redesign we’ve been putting off. Instead of squeezing in a few hours each week, what if we dedicated a week to it?

Harper: A whole week? That would mean putting other tasks on hold.

Rowan: Yes, but the idea is to create momentum and see real progress. The podcast even referenced the psychological impact; you actually start seeing some progress.

Harper: I see what you mean. It’s like pushing up a stuck window; the initial effort is the hardest, but once it starts moving, it becomes easier.

Rowan: Exactly! It creates a flywheel of motivation. Plus, Scrum uses sprints, which is basically a burst.

Harper: So what would a “burst” look like in practice for the website redesign?

Rowan: We’d start with planning, schedule an intense amount of activity, and clear our calendars, get in the same room to work on the same problem. We would need to:

• Define clear goals: What do we want to achieve during the week?
• Schedule dedicated time: Block out the entire week for focused work.
• Collaborate intensely: Work together in the same space to solve problems quickly.
• Limit distractions: Minimise meetings and other interruptions.

Harper: Okay, that sounds intense, but also potentially very effective. It’s an antidote to how mind-numbing it can be to get something changed because you’re working through meetings and then to align calendars. So a burst helps to counter this?

Rowan: Yes, that’s right. A burst is the antidote.

Harper: Do you think it would be worth trying a “burst” approach for the website redesign?

Rowan: Absolutely. It could be a game-changer. If we can clear our calendars and get in the same room to work on the same problem, boy does it pay off down the road.

Harper: Okay, I’m convinced. Let’s propose it to the team lead and see if we can make it happen. It’s about doing the work, not just talking about it.

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Check out this mind map based on the podcast by artofmanliness (1053) where Brad talks to Dan about these levelrage points. 

The original podcast is here.

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